Gladden longevity — Episode #31

Speaker 1: Welcome to the Gladden Longevity Podcast with Dr. Jeffrey Gladden MD, FACC, founder, and CEO of Gladden Longevity. On this show, we want to answer three questions for you. How good can we be? How do we make 100 the new 30? And how do we live well beyond 120? We want to help you optimize your longevity, health and human performance with impactful and actionable information.

Now, here's today's episode of the Gladden Longevity Podcast. The Gladden Longevity Podcast is provided for informational purposes only. It does not constitute medical advice. This content is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of a physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. The use of any information and materials linked to this podcast is at the listener's own risk.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Welcome everybody to the Gladden Longevity Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Jeffrey Gladden, and today I'm going to be speaking with Madelynn Walker. Madelynn Walker has a degree in nutrition and has been working with us at Gladden Longevity for some time. What's interesting about this conversation is that we're going to talk about common questions that we get from our clients with regards to their nutritional testing, their food sensitivity testing, their diets, their plans. And you're going to hear some really great insights that you're probably not aware of in terms of how to understand food sensitivity testing, and then how to orchestrate your diet. We get very granular here and make specific recommendations about where to get the best meat, what kind of unpasteurized milk to eat, what kind of bars are actually healthy, et cetera, et cetera.

I think you're really going to find this to be a very, very useful show. 

Welcome everybody to this edition of the Gladden Longevity Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Jeffrey Gladden, and today I'm joined by one of the people that works at Gladden Longevity, Madelynn Walker. Madelynn is our nutritionist and really started working with us while she was still finishing her undergraduate degree at Texas A&M. Now has worked with us here for the last year, really getting up to speed on a lot of things. And I thought what would be super helpful would be for her to answer questions and talk through things that we commonly get asked. And so, Madelynn, welcome to the show.

Madelynn Walker: Hi, thank you for having me.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Yeah, it's good to have you here. I know you're a little nervous, but that's okay. Everybody's a little nervous, I suppose. So, let's just kind of dive into this. So, one of the things that I think we try to do really well here at Gladden Longevity is actually understand what somebody should eat. And I've known for a long time that a healthy food may not be a healthy food for the individual. And one of my complaints has been that the problem with most diets is that it really starts with the food when in actual fact it should start with the individual. And so, we've gone to great lengths to measure genetics, to actually understand people's genetic predispositions.

How many copies of say the amylase gene, they have, what their nutrigenomics are, how food interacts with their genes to up regulate or down regulate genes in positive ways. And then we also look at nutrient status. We're doing that now in very comprehensive ways, both in the blood and inherent analysis for minerals. And then the other thing is looking at food sensitivities. We've gone through a number of different food sensitivity testings, and we've really kind of settled in on using something called MRT. And Madelynn, maybe you can explain to the audience what MRT is as a food sensitivity testing as being one of the primary ones we use.

Madelynn Walker: Yeah, definitely. So, MRT stands for mediator release test and there's been multiple studies on it showing it to be one of the most accurate, if not the most accurate food sensitivity blood test that's out there right now. And kind of the reasoning for this is that food sensitivities are measured by a whole lot of different types of mechanisms and immune mediated reactions.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Yeah, no. And so, I think what we're used to seeing in the food sensitivity testing that we've done previously is that we would get what are certain antibody levels. If somebody has a true food allergy, they might have an elevated IGE, or they might have an IGG, which would be kind of more of a food sensitivity, but not a direct kind of big reaction. And then there was compliment that could be tested as well, and then other antibodies that come into play.

And so, it sounds like with MRT, we kind of have moved beyond this paradigm of looking at the antibodies that may be cross reacting with foods, because one of the problems with the antibodies was that you could have an antibody that would react to an apple, even though you may not necessarily be sensitive to an apple, but you have an antibody that's cross reacting with it. And so, it left us wondering sometimes, “do you really have a food sensitivity to apple or don't you” kind of thing. So, it sounds like the MRT though has kind of stepped beyond this whole antibody paradigm. I think that's what you're telling us.

Madelynn Walker: Yeah. So, basically, with most other food sensitivity tests, they only test for a single mechanism that leads to a reaction such as how food specific antibodies do that, while the MRT is an endpoint test, meaning that all of the immune-based adverse reactions end up causing the release of mediators from white blood cells. So, why the MRT is so much better is because instead of testing a singular mechanism, it takes into account the actions of all mechanisms, because all of them, ultimately, lead the white blood cells releasing mediators, which is the cause of food sensitivities.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: That's really interesting because what we're saying is that rather than having random reactions to an isolated antibody, what we're really looking at is, what is the net result, right? How does it actually... After you factor in everything, what is actually the net result of putting this food into a person's body? Do they actually have a reaction to it as opposed to a hypothetical reaction to it or not? And I think it's fascinating that we're looking at white blood cells.

And I think as you and I were talking about this previously, the white blood cells, what they're measuring is the size of the white blood cells in response to the food because as these mediators are released from the white blood cells, the white blood cells shrink in size. And I think they're measuring the difference in the white blood cells sizes to determine the strength of the reaction, is that correct?

Madelynn Walker: Yeah, that's exactly correct. It's basically measuring the changes in the liquid to solo ratio of your blood after your blood has been exposed and incubated with the specific food antigens. So, what the [inaudible 00:07:23] measures is the cellular volume and the extracellular volume. And when we see food sensitivities and significant reactions, it shows that there's a decrease in the intercellular volume and then an increase in the extracellular volume because the white blood cells are releasing their mediators. So, the blood cells are getting smaller while the plasma is getting more substance from it.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Yeah, that's fascinating, yeah. I liked this a lot and I've liked it ever since we started using it because it just felt like there was a lot of random data points previously, even though they could be very comprehensive in their approach. It still left you wondering what was happening. And now we're actually seeing that your blood, you are actually either reacting to it or you're not, and to what degree. So, it's kind of a phenotypical reaction as opposed to a hypothetical reaction.

Madelynn Walker: Exactly. And that's just another reason why IGG isn't exactly the most useful test with sensitivities also, is because high levels of IGG can either be good by suppressing the immune system, or they could also be bad by causing an immune response. You can't tell which IGG is good or bad. So, even if there was a high level of IGG based on a certain food, there's not really any way to tell whether it's going to be good or bad, so you don't really know if that food is directly causing inflammation.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Yeah, it's interesting. There's another way that we do get an idea of whether or not people have food sensitivities, and that's measuring the level of IGA that's seen in their intestinal track when we do stool analysis, that's another hint that we know that something's going on, but it doesn't give us the specifics as to what foods are causing it. And so, again, we're sort of back to using this MRT test as being kind of the deciding factor in terms of what to do. So, it seems like that's been a bit of a game changer for you and how you're approaching clients.

Madelynn Walker: Yes, it definitely has. And I've already seen results from it. I actually had a client this week tell me that since eliminating his foods from the MRT, he has noticed his joint pain in his hands and the inflammation in his hands that he was feeling has significantly gone down. He doesn't feel the pain anymore, and this could also be due to some other things, but he really said that he noticed the difference after eliminating these foods.

So, another fact of food sensitivities is the inflammation is so underlying that you may not feel the effects from eating these foods right away. And that's one of the reasons why food sensitivities are so complex and kind of hard to pinpoint, but the effects of them are really shown once you actually eliminate these foods from your diet. That's when you feel the real difference. And I've already gotten amazing feedback from this specific test in eliminating the foods.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Yeah, that's great. And I think we were talking earlier too about Vibrant America does some Zoomer tests that are actually very comprehensive antibody tests on things like dairy and wheat and fish and seafood and things like that. Do you see that there's still a role for some of that kind of testing in particular individuals, or do you think the MRT kind of supersedes all of that?

Madelynn Walker: Yeah, so I think definitely the Zoomer testing could still be very useful for certain people depending on their diet and their preferences, especially because if it's someone who dairy is a part of their life, they don't really want to give it up. And the MRT test shows that it's nonreactive, then that would be a good choice to make is to go and do the zoom or for dairy to really see if that person's body can tolerate the certain proteins that are found in dairy because the Zoomers, they break down every single protein within that specific food Zoomer that you're doing. And it really takes a look at whether or not your gut kind of tolerates it.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Mm-hmm.

Madelynn Walker: So, I think those are definitely still useful to do for certain people and how they want to eat in their lifestyles. So, yeah, I think there's definitely a role for those to play still.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: So, it sounds like really the way things have evolved in your own thinking is that the MRT is really kind of the lead card that we play and do that test and then make adjustments based on that and see how people do. And if they're still having issues, maybe dive deeper with the Zoomer test or something like that. Is that what you're thinking?

Madelynn Walker: Yes, definitely.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Okay. And then the MRT, I think, when do people need to repeat that? Because one of the other things about food sensitivity testing is that it seems to move around and we've known for years that people that are only eating certain foods will many times show sensitivity to those foods that the body really likes variety and the immune system likes variety in the sense of not being exposed to the same thing over and over again. Is that also true with the MRT?

Madelynn Walker: Yes. So, as far as repeating the MRT, it's recommended to repeat it about every six months, just to really give your body that time to calm down from the inflammation that was caused by the certain foods that came up the first time you took the test, but it's also really important to have a lot of variety and balance in your diet and not eating the same things every single day, really changing it up because that's one of the ways that we can develop food sensitivities, is due to eating the same thing over and over again. And there's actually a name for this. It's called loss of oral tolerance.

And that's when whatever food it is, it can even be a food that is known to be anti-inflammatory and have amazing health benefits. But when you eat the same thing over and over again, your body kind of loses the ability to properly break down and absorb that food. And when that happens and the improperly broken down food molecule gets absorbed. That's when our blood kind of sees it and goes: "Oh, it's foreign. We need to attack it." And that's what causes inflammation.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Got you.

Madelynn Walker: So, really to avoid food sensitivities overall is really just to have a super well balanced diet and really just changing up what you eat.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Yeah. I think that's key. Every time I go to the grocery store, I try to buy different things just so I'm not eating the same thing over and over again. And I think we have this concept that there are healthy foods out there, anti-inflammatory foods and healthy foods and things like that. But what you're saying is that if you're not reacting to it, yes, it's a healthy food. But even then, it's not something that you should be eating every day. Your smoothie shouldn't consist of the same thing every day. You shouldn't have the same salad every day, the same dinner every night, or whatever it is you're doing.

You really need to spread it around. And I think there's a lot of wisdom in that. So, one of the other questions I would have for you is, people sometimes will show reactions to foods that they rarely eat. We've talked about how, when people eat things repetitively, they'll have a higher incidence of showing reactivity to it. But what about the situation where they almost never eat sardines, and all of a sudden it shows up that they're sensitive to sardines? Can you explain that? Because people end up asking about that all the time.

Madelynn Walker: Yeah. So, there's a couple reasons for this. And the first one kind of like you mentioned, beginning is genetics could definitely have a gene that's saying: "You're more sensitive to foods that contain histamines," or something like that to where some higher histamine foods will come up on your MRT test even if it's something that you rarely eat or have never eaten before, it could be due to cross reactivity of different foods.

It could be due to hidden sources of foods. And that's why looking at ingredients in what you're eating is also so crucial because there's hidden sources of all different types of food chemicals in so many foods these days in the world that we live. And the other reason could be false positives. And even though this test is shown to be an extremely accurate food sensitivity test, there's always that small margin of error.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Yeah, understood. And I guess the flip side of that same coin would be the situation where somebody comes to you and they're asking: "It shows that I'm reacting to broccoli, but when I eat broccoli, I feel great. So, how can I actually be reacting to it?" What do you have to say for folks like that?

Madelynn Walker: So, it kind of goes back to what I said about how there's the process called loss of oral tolerance. And let's say you're eating broccoli a good amount, and it is considered to be very healthy food. It's cruciferous vegetable, has lots of nutrients, but once again, if you're eating too much of it and your body kind of loses the ability to be able to break down and assimilate that food, then it'll start to become more inflammatory. And the fact of that all is that any food that is triggering your immune system to react against your body is not healthy for you, even if it does contain some really awesome health benefits.

So, that's the fact of it all, is even when we do see that some people are reactive to foods like salmon or spinach or broccoli or avocado, foods that are just known in the world to be super healthy and have these great health benefits, it's showing you that this specific food is causing you inflammation. And overall, if it's causing an overreaction of your immune system, then it's going to be something that you need to eliminate because as long as your immune system is constantly overreacting to a food and causing inflammation, then it can just lead down the road to all sorts of chronic health issues.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Got you.

Madelynn Walker: And that's why eliminating food sensitivities is so crucial for your health.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: When you think about that too, I think one of the things that we think about here is that we find that somebody is, let's say, sensitive to broccoli, but we look at their genetics and we know that sulforaphane, which is contained in broccoli, is super helpful for them with regards to decreasing cancer risk and improving their ability to detox and decrease inflammation and do lots and lots of good things for them. And so sometimes we'll end up substituting or supplementing rather sulforaphane in a supplement format.

At the same time, we're having them avoid the broccoli because a lot of what they're reacting to in the broccoli is not sulforaphane. And so, that way we're trying to kind of balance how do we actually get the person, what we know their genetics are calling for and yet not expose them to the food that we know they're going to be reacting to. So, it gets a little complicated that way, but we do that all the time. So, I have a question for you…

We talk about in elimination diets, gluten comes up all the time, dairy comes up all the time, GMO foods like corn and things like that come up frequently. So, what are your thoughts about if somebody does an MRT food sensitivity test and they don't show any reactivity to gluten or dairy or things like that, what's your recommendation? Should they just go ahead and eat gluten and dairy and everything is fine, or what are your thoughts on that?

Madelynn Walker: So, when it comes to certain foods like gluten and dairy, which are known to just be inflammatory foods, even if it does come up on the MRT as non-reactive, I always kind of lean towards more of the approach of still eating gluten-free grains and finding sources of foods that are gluten free, same with dairy going for the plant-based products. And this is because with gluten, at least, it contains proteins that our bodies cannot fully break down and digest. That's due to them being very highly resistant to the proteins enzymes, which are the enzymes that break down proteins.

And when we can't digest the gluten proteins very well, then that's when they can cross over into your bloodstream, and that's one of the results of leaky gut. And same with dairy. Dairy also contains proteins. It has [inaudible 00:20:11] that we can't break down, especially when consuming pasteurized milk, which is the majority of milk sold in grocery stores. And that's because it's void of the enzymes needed to break down these proteins. So, basically, even if an MRT does show it's low reactive to gluten and or dairy, I still recommend to stay away from them. Quality definitely matters. However, it's just the fact that the molecules and the proteins that make up both gluten and dairy still aren't going to be the best when we're trying to heal your gut.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Do you have any thoughts about unpasteurized milk? Because I know there's a big movement out there around unpasteurized milk and unpasteurized cheese and butter and things like that as a way to get a healthier form of, well, let's call it, mammal milk, because it could be cow, it could be goat, it could be sheep or whatever else. But do you have any thoughts about that safety or concerns?

Madelynn Walker: Well, yes. So, with unpasteurized milk, overall, you want to buy obviously organic and grass fed, but when it comes to unpasteurized, I do think it is a good option because unpasteurized milk will still contain those enzymes that allow for the breakdown of the [inaudible 00:21:32] contained in dairy. So, it helps to digest them more. It also comes down to, if you're not buying organic grass-fed milk, then it's kind of a thing of, it has a lot more omega-6s compared to omega-3s.

And grass-fed milk contains a much higher level of conjugated linoleic acid, which helps increase inflammation, has a wide range of health benefits. So, with dairy, I think 100%, if that is your choice to be eating it, definitely making sure it's high quality, organic grass-fed, and then unpasteurized, if you can tolerate it, it's kind of just based on your stomach, either way pasteurized or pasteurized, it's different for everyone's bodies. Some people can tolerate one or the other better. However, I would suggest buying unpasteurized so you still have those enzymes that can help break down the milk proteins.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: So, pasteurization is there to kind of sterilize the milk. Do you have concerns about people eating or consuming unpasteurized products that they're going to be exposed to bacteria or things like that? Or is it really that at the end of the day, we've grown up with the ability, particularly in a well-cared for animal that's taking care of well and is organic and grass-fed and all these things that the risk of that is actually quite low, I think that's probably something that people still worry about.

Madelynn Walker: It's more of definitely the source and the quality of the cow and the milk and where it's coming from. You want to make sure it's from a reliable source. You don't want to just be buying any unpasteurized milk out there, but I'd say if it is coming from a good source and the cows are sustainably raised and being fed organic grass, everything like that. And I'd say, it's going to be okay to go ahead and try. It really is, like I said, dependent on the person and how they can tolerate it. So, I don't think it ever hurts to try it. Just making sure it's coming from a reliable source, 100%.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Yeah. Okay. Well that makes good sense. And then do you want to talk a little bit about oils? We focus a lot on healthy oils, unhealthy oils. We're always fans of omega-3s and we talk badly about omega-6s. We know that the omega-6 to omega-3 ratio in our diets is much, much higher, maybe closer to 18 or 20 to one than maybe it was for native people where it was maybe like three to one. And that the omega-6s can drive inflammation. So, do you have thoughts about what kinds of seeds and oils people should be consuming and what they should be avoiding? I think a lot of people end up confused with "well, nuts are healthy or they're unhealthy, seeds are healthy or they're unhealthy, which soils am I supposed to be doing here?"

Madelynn Walker: So, with vegetable and seed oils, the main ones you always want to focus on is going to be buying organic avocado oil for high heat cooking. That's temperatures above 400 degrees. And then extra Virgin olive oil for low heat cooking. And those are going to be the two to mainly focus on. Pretty much any other vegetable or seed oil is going to be highly processed no matter if it says organic or if it's high oleic, anything like that, all of them are highly processed due to also, they're always most likely hydrogenated, which is adding hydrogen during processing, which makes these seed oils extremely inflammatory and so bad for your health.

Overall, every single one of them causes inflammation and they are hidden in pretty much everything these days, even some healthy foods like some oat milks. There's sunflower oil as one of the main ingredients in them. So, it's really something to look out for in products, even health food products that you think are good, but they have these hidden sources of it in them. But, overall, yeah, you want to stay away from any vegetable or seed oil and that's including: canola, sunflower, starflower, peanut, soybean. It's really the avocado oil and the olive oil that you want to stick to.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Right. It's kind of surprising to me that they don't make products that have olive oil in it or avocado oil in it, that they always go to these others. Does it have to do with oil stability? The other ones are easier to keep stable and these will go rant or something, is that part of the issue?

Madelynn Walker: Well, one of the biggest things and reasons why so many companies use these oils that are just terrible for your health is because they're cheap.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Okay.

Madelynn Walker: That's the main reason, they're all very cheap to use and to process, whereas avocado oil and olive oil are going to be more expensive. And also, the processing of these vegetable oils does allow them to have a longer shelf life.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Right.

Madelynn Walker: But, either way, any oil that you use, as long as you're keeping it in good conditions, in a dark place, making sure the bottle is sealed… So, to prevent any sort of oxidation of it, they can all last a good amount of time, so it's-

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: I was just going to ask you, so should we be keeping our oils in the refrigerator because I think I've tried that in the past and they kind of solidify in there to some extent. It makes it a little difficult to use. So, is it just really a cool dark place like in a cabinet as opposed to a shelf, or what are you recommending there?

Madelynn Walker: Yeah, there's no need to refrigerate your oils because they normally do, they can solidify. As long as, yeah, they're in a dark space like normally in a cabinet maybe to the side of your oven or something like that, kind of more away from heat as well. And making sure you're sealing those, the caps of them are really, really tight because you don't want to have any-

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Oxidation, really.

Madelynn Walker: ... exposure to... Yeah, you don't want any oxidation to occur as well, but as long as you're keeping them in those conditions, then they'll last you a long time.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Okay. All right. And I'm sure you get a lot of questions about alternatives of sugar. Everybody's familiar with the way that sugar kind of ravages us and the way it's addicting and all those kinds of things. As you've kind of worked through this, there's so many sugar substitutes out there and we tend to shy away from most of them, even though they're touted as being healthy, stevia or maybe xylitol or some other things that people are using. But do you have thoughts about this? Is there really any alternative that is available to people that you would recommend, or should we just stay away from it all together?

Madelynn Walker: Yeah. There are definitely some good sugar alternatives out there. The problem with buying certain brands of stevia or monk fruit is really the ingredients because a lot of stevia brands you see these days, aren't actually pure stevia. They're mixed with erythritol and same with monk fruit. So, it's just really important that if that is something you want to use for your coffee or tea or whatever it is, you want to make sure that it's pure. And the only ingredient in it is going to be pure stevia or pure monk fruit. And those are my two main go-to’s, but another one that's becoming increasingly popular is called Yacon Syrup.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: How do you spell that?

Madelynn Walker: It's Y-A-C-O-N.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Yacon.

Madelynn Walker: So, it's like bacon, but with a Y.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Madelynn Walker: Yacon.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Yacon Syrup.

Madelynn Walker: Okay. And that actually has been shown to have really great gut health benefits, and it comes from a root from the Yacon plant, which I believe is from... It's found in the Andes Mountains in South America.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Okay.

Madelynn Walker: And it's basically the juice from these roots is extracted and filtered and then evaporated all in a chemical-free process, and it's a really great dietary source of fructooligosaccharides.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Oh, it's a fructooligosaccharides?

Madelynn Walker: Mm-hmm, yeah.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Oh, okay. I'll just mention this fructooligosaccharides are terrific prebiotic.

Madelynn Walker: Yeah, that was going to be my next thing.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Okay. Didn't mean to steal your thunder there, but...

Madelynn Walker: No, no problem. Yeah, no, it's a great prebiotic. So, it's in the same soluble dietary fiber category as artichokes and leaks and onions and garlic and things like that. And it feeds the good bacteria in your gut. And also, when it's digested and the bacteria digest it, it produces short-chain fatty acids, which are-

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: [inaudible 00:30:39].

Madelynn Walker: ... so good for you. Mm-hmm, definitely. And there's also been some research done on them that shows that they can reduce [inaudible 00:30:46]. So, it helps to reduce appetite.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Nice.

Madelynn Walker: That's also just the other sugar alternative that I've found lately to be really, really great.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Where do you find that? Do you go to Amazon to get that, or can you find it at Whole Foods? Have you bought it or just know about it?

Madelynn Walker: So, I've seen it a lot at Sprouts, Whole Foods as well. There's some on Amazon too. So, pretty much any health food store, you can look it up online. I'm sure Amazon has a good source of it. I haven't looked it up specifically on Amazon, but I'm sure we could look around and find a good brand, but yeah, any health food store, it's there.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Okay. That's great, that's great. And then maybe just talk a little bit about animal protein. I'm not a vegetarian, I think I've said that on the podcast many times, but I don't necessarily eat animal protein every day, but that being said, I think everybody's familiar with grass-fed, grass-finished beef, wild game. There are people out there that really kind of are wild Italians in terms of how they think about eating healthy foods.

Their feeling is that in farm-raised foods, we get a lot of amyloid proteins and things like that, that the body doesn't digest well and can accumulate in the body and cause problems, whereas in wild animals, Terry Cochran's a big proponent of this, that our bodies assimilate the protein in a much better way. Do you have thoughts about animal protein, how often people should eat it. And it's a little bit by body type and genetics as well, but do you have thoughts about this?

Madelynn Walker: So, it definitely is very personalized. It's specific to everyone. There's people that can eat animal protein every day and it doesn't really affect any sort of inflammatory markers. Their cholesterol is still good, and then there's other people where they can eat it once a week and it still causes issues. So, it varies person to person based on their genetics, based on their cholesterol and pretty much all of their other testing that we do, it really does depend. But when it comes to animal protein, the most important thing that a lot of people don't really take into account or realize is that the quality of that protein is so important.

There's a saying that you are what you eat… has eaten. And it's all kind of about how, if you're going to be consuming beef and poultry and eggs and things like that, you have to make sure that it comes from an organic source that's really good. And some of the reasons for this is because conventional and mass produced animals are fed GMO corn and soy diets. And this leads to higher amounts of the pro-inflammatory omega-6, which is arachidonic acid. And that kind of just throws off the whole integrity of the health and the nutrients of the meat.

Whereas if you're getting it from an organic grass-fed, grass-finished source, the omega-3s are much higher. And those are the anti-inflammatory fatty acids that you want. So, really, it's important to getting the best quality of meat, not only beef, but also chicken, turkey and eggs, and also dairy all of them together. You have to make sure it's coming from a good source. Otherwise, it's just compromising the whole health of it. So, that's kind of why it's so important. It really is all about the omega-6 omega to omega-3 ratio. It's a huge, huge part of it.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Yeah. And I know that there are kind of micro farms or ranches out there that are selling high quality meat that people can go online and order from, I don't know if you're recommending any of those to the clients, but I'm familiar with a number of them. And then, I think there's similar kinds of things for seafood also, where you can get wild caught salmon and sardines. Things that people take care to make sure that they're getting the best quality animal protein that you can get kind of thing. Is that something that you're recommending to people that they go out and find those places or?

Madelynn Walker: Definitely. If there's some people that don't have access to a grocery store or a place near them that sells high quality grass-fed, grass-finished meat, and wild-caught fish, there are multiple places online that can ship them to you. One of the best ones that I found is called Butcher Box and it's organic, it's 100% grass-fed, grass-finished meat, wild-caught fish. And that's one of the main ones that I'll recommend to clients if they don't have access to a good grocery store to go and find these things at.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Right. There's another one that I know of called Black Wing Market, which sells game meat also, if people are interested in that, and then I think there's Vital Source, which is kind of a good source for seafood, like salmon and sardines and that kind of thing that I'm familiar with also. So, I think one of the big challenges in eating is that, let's say we're at home, we're in our routine, we go to work, we're doing whatever we're doing, eating is a little bit more predictable, but what happens for all of us is we travel either for business or we travel for vacation or whatever…

And in those different contexts, all of a sudden, eating becomes a real challenge. And I know that even for myself, if I don't plan ahead, if I get hungry and I'm in an airport and I'm scrounging around for something to eat, I'm going to eat something that I might not ordinarily eat, just because I'm hungry, it's there, and I need something, so to speak. So, do you have strategies to help people stay on track, if you will, as they go through these different contexts in which they're needing to eat?

Madelynn Walker: Mm-hmm. So, I think it is always super important to be prepared. And that's the number one tip or advice that I have for people is to, if you're going somewhere, it's going to be a long day and that you're either going to have to eat out or you're going to get hungry later, is to have things on hand where you know that you can make a good choice by eating that instead, such as protein bars that have really clean ingredients in them, which I recommend multiple to different people where you can buy them-

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: What is a good protein bar? What is a good bar? Because I think that's a real question in people's minds. you go into, I don't know, any store and there's like 40 different bars. And a lot of them have the inflammatory oils in them, the processed oils and things, even though they say healthy or whatever. So, have you identified some actual bars that you've kind of vetted and you feel like are reasonably good choices?

Madelynn Walker: Definitely, yeah. I have a whole list and I completely understand what you're saying. It can be very overwhelming to go to that nutrition/protein bar aisle of Whole Foods, and there's literally 50 different options.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Right?

Madelynn Walker: You don't really know which one's great, but some really good ones that I found are, one of them is called the Redd Bar. It's spelled R-E-D-D. That one's really great. Has a good amount of protein, has a super food blend with antioxidants. It has prebiotics and probiotics blend. It's super, super great. There's one called IQ Bar, which their main thing is that they put a bunch of brain nutrients into their bars. So, they have things like lionsmane in it, they have chaga. It's really, really great. Aloha Bar is awesome. They use brown rice and pumpkin protein.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: What's that bar called?

Madelynn Walker: All of these are great.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: What's that bar called again?

Madelynn Walker: Aloha Bar.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Oh, like Hawaii?

Madelynn Walker: Like Hawaii, yeah. And they also have a really good line of just protein powders and things like that. But their protein bar is probably my favorite one right now. They use a little bit of cane sugar in their coating. It's organic and it's very minimal, but it's like 14 grams of protein in the bar. So, it's super high protein bar and it's really great. There's another one called Real Food Bar, which is another one of those bars that has a vegetable and kind of Berry antioxidant blend into the bar. So, that one's really great. And then also another great bar is the body health perfect amino bar that has the blend of essential amino acids right there in the bar with it. So, that one's also really great. So, I have a whole list of really awesome clean ingredients.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Oh, great.

Madelynn Walker: Plant-based protein bars. I normally, typically, go for the plant-based ones, just because they're the most reliable in forms of protein and quality of protein.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Awesome. Yeah, those are great recommendations. We'll put those into show notes. We'll copy those in so people can actually see your recommendations there. So, I think it’s been super helpful in terms of addressing, I think, some of the common questions that we get and some of the recommendations that we typically make to people. As you think about it, typically at the end of the show, we ask people, if there were three things that you were going to recommend from the standpoint of optimizing people's longevity and performance and health and things like that, what three things would you pull forward? I know you've already covered a lot of great things here, but are there any three that would pop to mind as being really the top three?

Madelynn Walker: Yeah. So, overall, I think nutrition, overall, and diet is probably one of the most important things regarding what you can do for your longevity, and really sticking to the elimination of your food sensitivities and decreasing that inflammation is very important. So, I think that's one of the main things. Secondly, quality of food, making sure you're buying organic when you can, making sure that your meat and your animal products are coming from reliable sources.

To ensure that you're getting good balance of omega-3s to omega-6s and not compromising the health and the nutrients of the animal products that you are eating. And the third, I would say one of the most important things is to really look for ingredients in foods, to look out for those vegetable and seed oils that are hidden in crackers or plant-based milks or products that you think are healthy because of the labeling, but when you look at the ingredients, it's full of sunflower oil. So, I'd say those are the three big, good takeaways from this, or just even tips to kind of remember.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Yeah, I think the last one is super interesting because there's just the food industry is there to sell food, so they want to make it taste good and look appealing, both from the standpoint of the color of the box, to the fact that it says “organic” or it says “certified”, or it says any of the buzzwords that all of a sudden lower somebody's barrier to purchase, right?

Madelynn Walker: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: And yet, if you don't look at the label, you're going to be misled so many times in terms of really thinking you're eating something healthy when you're not. And so, I think all three of those are great recommendations. Well, great. It's been great having you on the show. I know you were a little nervous, but you did great.

Madelynn Walker: Thank you. Yeah, it's been great being in on it.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: All right. Awesome. Well, we'll have to do it again. All right. Thanks so much.

Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Gladden Longevity Podcast. If you would like more information on what we've discussed or other topics, please reference the show notes or go to gladdenlongevitypodcast.com. You can also find us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter by searching Gladden Longevity. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe to get future episodes delivered to you and share our podcast or this episode with someone in your life that may find benefit. Thank you for listening. We'll be back next week with another exciting episode.