Gladden longevity — Episode #43

Steve Reiter: Welcome to the Gladden Longevity Podcast with Dr. Jeffrey Gladden, MD, FACC, founder and CEO of Gladden Longevity. On this show, we want to help you optimize your longevity, health, and human performance with impactful and actionable information by answering three questions, how good can we be? How do we make 100, the new 30? And how do we live well beyond 120?

Dr. Gladden, you're traveling right now. You're in Miami.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: I am.

Steve Reiter: And you're actually doing this from your car.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Mm-hmm.

Steve Reiter: But we were able to successfully get an interview done with Max Newlon, who's the president of BrainCo. And one of the products that they produce is a headband, much like a Muse headband called Focus Calm.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Yeah.

Steve Reiter: You and I were watching some YouTube videos right before the interview and are really intrigued with this product.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Yeah, I think it's fascinating. I think the audience is going to love this because if you really want to optimize your life, then you're really serious about optimizing control of your brain. What thoughts come in? What thoughts go out? What state of mind am I in? How calm am I? Can I focus? Can I get into a flow state?

And I think brain modulation, brain reprogramming if you will, is one of the absolute keys to not only health, longevity, and performance but just a quality of life in general. So I think you're going to love this podcast. We really loved it.

Steve Reiter: Yeah, and both you and I admitted during the interview we are going to be purchasing Focus Calm headbands, and afterward, we talk with Max, and we'll be bringing him back on in the future to talk about our experience with it. But for any listener that is interested in getting this, you can go to focuscalm.com and enter the promo code Longevity 10 for 10% off the headband and the lifetime subscription. So, Longevity 10 there at focuscalm.com.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Steve, I have to say that this is going to be a really interesting show, and welcome everybody to the Gladden Longevity Podcast for today. We're excited to talk about the brain, and I think many of you have heard me say this before, but I'll say it again, that I really think the fundamental issue with all health and all health optimization if you will, which leads into longevity optimization, performance optimization is really a function of brain programming and reprogramming.

I'm a cardiologist by training, but I have to admit that the heart is in service to the brain and the entire body is essentially the brain from my perspective. It's not just what's in the cranium. So, being able to integrate that and optimize that is massively important from my perspective.

So, we're really happy to have Max Newlon with us today, who's the CEO of BrainCo, which is really, I guess, the parent company to a product called Focus Calm that optimizes people's brains using neurofeedback techniques. And Max, welcome to the show. We're going to dive into exactly what you guys are up to.

Max Newlon: Thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be here.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: So, tell us a little bit. I mean, we know you have a background. You went to a pretty well-known educational institution, Harvard, I believe it was. And when you think about smart people going to Harvard, I would suspect that your brain is probably one of your prized possessions.

And so, I'm just curious to know how you really got from being academically gifted on the one hand to really wanting to focus on the brain on the other hand. A lot of people that are academically gifted take that for granted. It's just like they were just dealt that hand. So, tell us a little bit about your journey.

Max Newlon: Sure. The thing that has interested me since I was very, very young is the mind, and what types of experiences are available to us if we can learn more about ourselves or train our brains in certain ways. And there's a through-line through martial arts, which I was exposed to for many years as a younger person, and got me interested in Eastern philosophy, which led me into cognitive science and then some neuroscience research labs. And so, it was this pursuit of the things that I was interested in, but the through-line is the potential of the human mind.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Okay, so with the background in martial arts, it sounds like you were potentially doing some meditation as well and also got involved with flow states or understanding how the mind gets in the way of things many times and how to really back out of the frontal lobe, so to speak. So, you must have become fascinated with that as a kid, is what I'm hearing. Is that correct?

Max Newlon: There's a story of my teacher in first grade. I'm six years old, and my mom gets a phone call, and she picks up, she says: "Is everything okay?" I'm just six years old. And the teacher goes: "No, no, no, everything's fine. I just wanted to tell you that Max was meditating outside during recess, and that's kind of cool, but just wanted to clue you into the types of stuff he's up to."

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Okay.

Max Newlon: So, I think I must have seen that from Power Rangers or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles or something. But we did do meditation during martial arts, but I had some sort of inclination in this direction, and experiences in martial arts of understanding how your mind dictates how well you perform and the flow state that you can enter is really interesting to me.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: So, when you were six years old, were you actually able to find yourself going into a meditative state? Because I know in Eastern cultures, children are taught to meditate from really very young ages, and I think it's something that they resonate with very early on, but not so much in the West. But were you able to actually do that?

Max Newlon: Yeah. I remember the experience would be like leaning into a positive feeling. I remember sitting down. When you're six, you don't have a lot of concepts. For better or for worse, you don't have a lot of concepts in your mind. So, just sitting and leaning into a nice peaceful feeling. The instructions that we got, that was my memory of that story when I was meditating at recess, is just closing my eyes and leaning into a positive feeling that I was having.

And then, in martial arts, we learned different breathing techniques as well to manage stress. So, you do the technique before class to focus your mind, and you're reminded to use it in high-pressure situations. Like, let's say you're doing some sparring, you need to be calm, cool, and relaxed during high-pressure situations. And it's funny because these same principles are what we're working on now in the business, but it was based on experiences that I had early on as well.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Right, okay. So, I love the fact that this has really been a lifelong passion for you. I mean, this is really cool. It's not something you just picked up. It's really like you're almost living out a dream in a way. You've always probably had a fascination with this, as you've just said. So, tell us a little bit about what it is you're trying to accomplish with your company, with your technology. What are you trying to bring to life here for people?

Max Newlon: We want to unlock the potential of neurotechnology, which is a very special type of technology that not many people have access to right now, but that's changing. And we want to bring the benefit and the power of this type of technology to as many people as possible.

So, BrainCo as a whole develops neurotechnology for the prosthetic industry. So, we work with amputees. We've created a prosthetic hand that's super responsive and very, very easy to use for people who have lost a limb or maybe were born that way. We have a division that teaches students across the country about neuroscience and neurotechnology and what types of careers are down this science and technology path.

And then we also have our business called Focus Calm, where people can wear a lightweight headband that quantifies their brain states and teaches them to master themselves a bit better so they can be calm and they can be focused more throughout the day regardless of what type of chaos they happen to find themselves in.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Okay. So, part of this sounds like stress management, part of this sounds like performance optimization, and part of this sounds like flow states are what I'm getting at or getting from you as I hear about this. Are there other states that you're able to train people into? Can you optimize delta waves for sleep or alpha for meditation and whatever else? Can you dial through the EEG brainwaves?

Max Newlon: We're actually taking a snapshot of the entire raw signal and looking at over a thousand features. So, for example, if we were going to be measuring how much beta power there was compared to how much alpha power, which is sometimes an algorithm that's used to measure attention or relaxation, that algorithm would be looking at two features, power of beta, power of alpha. We're looking at over a thousand features.

So, a lot of the people on our team come from deep artificial intelligence and machine learning backgrounds, and we're applying this type of perspective to the signal that the headband's acquiring. So, we're looking at all these different features, and the thing that we're quantifying is mostly like cognitive workload, how busy is your mind or how relaxed is your mind? [inaudible 00:09:50]-

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: So, that's going to be beta for the most part? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think beta is when the mind is being active, right?

Max Newlon: Yeah.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: I was just going to say that for the audience, we're talking about EEG-driven training here. So, just like you get hooked up to an EKG, and you have an electrical signal from the heart, you can hook up your brain to an EEG, electroencephalogram, and we can map different brain waves that are different frequencies throughout the brain, and they correlate with different brain activities.

And many people have those activities out of balance, which can lead to stress and lack of attention, and difficulty with sleeping and things of this nature. So, being able to get those brainwaves synchronized is a simple way of saying it. It becomes very important to the quality of your life as well as your capacity for performance if you will. So, it's a really critical thing we're talking about here.

You're analyzing this, really, with a deep machine learning kind of look, so you're looking at really deep things. So, what have you figured out utilizing that? Does that go into the algorithm for the training? Tell us how this works exactly. What are you doing there?

Max Newlon: To really accurately measure these brain states, you can use the frequency bands like delta, theta, alpha, and beta and see how they relate to each other. That's one way, but what we have found is we can get a more accurate understanding of what's going on in your brain if we let the data tell us what these states really look like. Let's not impose our frequency bands and try to get them to fit into these bands.

We'll have people do different high-stress tasks and see how their brains respond. And over hundreds of samples, we can understand the similarities through thousands of features in the signal.

And we'll create a model, and every time your brain starts to look like this model, we'll say that your Focus Calm score is dropping and that your brain's going into an active state. And if your brain starts to look like our model for a deeply relaxed, at ease brain or at ease mind, then your Focus Calm score will go up. And so, we scale it from 0 to 100.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Now, is it appropriate for somebody to stay calm all the time? I think a lot of people think about their emotions and their state of mind as being appropriate for the situation like I need to elevate my intensity or I need to elevate my concern or my worry at this point in time. How do you navigate that for people? Are you really thinking that people should be able to stay in a calm state all the time? I have personal opinions about all this, but I'm curious about yours.

Max Newlon: Yeah, I think there are healthy reasons not to be calm. It might even be a clinical abnormality if you're very calm when it's not appropriate. What I think is true, though, is a lot of people's arousal tends to get overly heightened when they're faced with stress. And so, what we want to teach people is to stay in the ideal arousal window based on their situation.

So, if you're just hanging out, the ideal window for arousal is a state of calm. We work with a lot of high-performance athletes. If you're driving a race car at 200 miles an hour, the proper window of arousal is going to be different. Still, though, we want those drivers to learn how to stay calm under pressure so they can make the best decisions possible. But I agree, it's not like we think people should be in this kind of la-la land for the entire day.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Right. It is interesting, though, that the best decisions do get made out of a place of equanimity and calm. I think because my experience is that when people are rattled or upset or nervous or anxious, they're looking at the situation through a filter that doesn't necessarily allow them to see all of the creative solutions that are actually there. So, they're coming in with a lot of preconception bias, so to speak.

And so, being able to get back to a place where people actually feel safe and when they feel safe, they feel calm, and when they feel calm, they're actually able to look at the situation much more objectively, or even better yet, take their frontal lobes out of it if it's snowboarding or mountain biking or driving a race car or whatever it is and allow your brain to do what it does best.

I think that while I agree with you that we do need to respond when somebody steps into the room with a gun, even there, I think being calm enables us to make better decisions than being excited, so to speak. So, yeah.

Max Newlon: I think there's a layer of being calm, and there's also a layer of being focused. You can be calm and spacey.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: That's right.

Max Newlon: You can also be calm and present.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: That's right.

Max Newlon: And I think that's what we want.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: That's right. And so, do you have a way with this device to train people to be both calm and present and focused? Is that what this is about?

Max Newlon: Yeah. That's one of the big differentiators between us and a lot of the wellness products or even meditation apps out there. And meditation is one of the tools that we use, but we view ourselves as a toolbox for training our brain for all these different situations that we'll face in life. And some of them have to do with wellness, and some of them have to do with performance.

But we've created a process where we teach people how to control their mindset, and they can see their Focus Calm score go up typically through breathing practices, sports psychology, or meditation. Then we have people train their ability to enter this brain state, what we might call strengthen that mental muscle through different brain-controlled games. And then, we have a section where we challenge people to remain calm under pressure or calm while they need to be very present.

We have different games that target certain executive functions, and in order to do well at that part of the app, you have to complete the game accurately. So, you have to be present, you have to be on, but simultaneously you need to retain your sense of calm and peace.

And this is where we try to get people to transfer the skills of relaxation into situations where maybe there's some cognitive demand, and this is the method that we use to take it beyond just being calm while you sit on your meditation cushion, but actually learn to be calm in higher pressure situations.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: I think that's quite brilliant because I think a lot of people struggle to meditate. Then once people learn to meditate, it becomes like riding a bike. They can get back to that state if you will. But then to have yourself challenged, the idea of practice where you're actually being challenged to stay calm in certain situations and stay focused. And I assume you're being graded on your decision-making capability as well. That's really, really cool stuff because if you get the chance to practice your golf swing, you get a whole lot better than if you don't get to practice it. So, that's really, really neat stuff.

And so, what are you seeing with this device? I mean, who's using it? What kind of results are they getting, and what's being reported out? What's your data telling you?

Max Newlon: Well, because it's a toolbox, and we can help people learn to fall asleep more quickly, we can help people start their day with the right mindset, we can help people with high-stress jobs wind down after a long day. We have all these different use cases to train people's brains in different ways. We have a variety of users, and I already mentioned the high-performance athletes.

What we see, though, is after about 20 sessions of use, there are statistically significant improvements in well-being, reductions in burnout, reductions in anxiety. We use some self-reported measures like the World Health Organization Wellbeing Index or the Copenhagen Burnout Inventory to measure these things in populations of teachers. We're doing a study with nurses right now. We've done studies with professional athletes.

And like any skill, you get better at this, and because you're measuring your brain waves, you're measuring your Focus Calm score. We also find that the more people practice these games and these meditations, the higher their scores go over time.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Do people eventually plateau, or do you feel like it's just people continue to make incremental gains?

Max Newlon: They continue to make incremental gains. It depends on where you start. If you have a deep meditation experience, you're likely going to be good at this and be able to keep a high Focus Calm score. But we grade you on different features, like how quickly you can enter the state, how deeply you enter the state, and how long you can remain in there.

And then with the different challenge games that we have, those are very, very difficult to remain calm while completing them. So, even if you have a deep practice, those are going to be a challenge.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Okay. Okay. Interesting.

Steve Reiter: Max, I think one of the things that really intrigued me about this product is I got a Muse many moons ago, and I thought it was great for meditation, but I always wanted more. I always wanted to learn, okay, what kind of a state am I in when I'm rock climbing and what kind of a state am I in when I'm out for a run or those kinds of things.

And that's one thing I think with this tool, with the FocusCalm, you're able to really do is be able to track your brain while I'm out rock climbing and getting into that kind of flow state while I'm scaling up the faces of rock here in Colorado.

Max Newlon: Yeah, though I'll tell you, don't check your FocusCalm score on your phone, please, while you're climbing. I don't want you to have an accident. But yeah, you can experiment, and I think that's a really cool thing. That's actually one of my favorite use cases. What is my brain like when I'm answering work emails versus when I'm listening to some of my favorite music?

We've seen some people do some interesting experiments with their cat or their dog. So, they'll put their FocusCalm on, and they'll see their score. It might be 40 or 50, which is like an average, neutral zone. And then they'll start petting their cat, and their Focus Calm score shoots through the roof.

And you can imagine those types of different experiences you have throughout your day. Some of them are very soothing and common, and you can validate what's working for you and what's not. You can see where your brain state is throughout your day.

Steve Reiter: Now, with Muse 2, they have biofeedback where they can measure heart rate and those kinds of things. Do you have anything like that, or can you pair an Apple Watch with it so that the app is tracking that sort of stuff?

Max Newlon: So, right now, the headband's just looking at brain data. Our R and D team is always working on new things, that is what I'll say.

Steve Reiter: Okay, Very cool. So, for me, I got a big freaking noggin. How does it fit? Because I mean, I've got a Hapbee around my neck right now, and it's a little tight to get over my head. And so-

Max Newlon: I think you should be all set. We have some very different types of people using the headband. Some of them are professional athletes that tend to lean on the bigger side, and they're able to use it too. So, we haven't had that issue. I don't think we've had that issue yet where it hasn't fit someone's head.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Does it play any role in recovery from a concussion or any other brain pathologies? Is there any data there that early cognitive decline or a post-concussive or PTSD? Is there any data that would show that this also helps to improve people's recovery?

Max Newlon: Yeah, I'd be more confident in the applications as it relates to post-traumatic stress because there's the training component of self-regulation. For things like concussions, we have gotten in touch with some researchers that are interested in looking at this, but we don't have any data to make claims on that.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Okay.

Max Newlon: What I would say, though, is if you're experiencing stress maybe as a result of something that's happened, this can certainly be one of the tools you use to help yourself with that.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Okay. Yeah, very interesting.

Steve Reiter: Max, when I get this product because I'm going to be getting it, I'm telling you right now, I freaking love it. Do I need to buy separate accounts for my sons if they want to use it? Is there like a family plan when it comes to the software?

Max Newlon: It depends what you would like to do. So, the headband right now is $199, and then you can get a lifetime subscription for 150 bucks. So, all in, you're looking at 350. If you don't want to do that, you can do a monthly plan for nine bucks a month or an annual plan for $70 a year.

And if you don't mind people on the same account, you can all use the same account. If you want your own separate accounts because you want to track your data separately, you can have one headband and use multiple accounts. So, you don't necessarily need everyone to have their own headband.

And then we have something really cool called the team portal where if you're a clinician or a coach, you can track people's progress as they use the app, you can assign them different tasks and see how they're doing, you can check in with them all through our portal. So, there are different ways where a headband and different types of accounts can interact, either as an individual, a family, or a team, or a clinic.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Is this the kind of thing that you could use it prior to engaging in an activity where you wanted to enter a flow state? Like, let's say you're about to go snowboarding or mountain biking or something. You could put it on in the car and kind of put yourself in that state and jump on the bike and immediately be there. Is that what you're saying?

Max Newlon: Yeah, a lot of the pro athletes we work with will do that.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Okay.

Max Newlon: And depending on if they need to up-regulate or down-regulate to get into their sweet spot, they might do one of the challenges, or they might do one of the relaxing tasks or exercises. It depends on where they want to take themselves.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Cool. Very cool. So, talk to us for a minute about flow states because I think a lot of people now understand that flow states are really a state in which people report that they're most satisfied with their lives, they're happiest, they're the most joyous in one sense when they look back on it as a state of being present.

And with the calmness and everything like that and the focus, do you ultimately end up moving people towards flow states per se? Or are flow states a separate part of the app where I want to go into a flow state?

Max Newlon: I think flow states are going to be the result of people doing the practices.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Okay.

Max Newlon: So, if we think about flow, it's based on the activity I'm engaged in. I'm not overly aroused, and I'm not under-aroused; I'm in the sweet spot. I'm not bored, and I'm not anxious; I'm in the sweet spot for the task at hand. But you can get there, I think, in two ways. One, the task can change. You stay the same, you stay static, and the task changes so that the task is matching that sweet spot.

Or you can change your mindset to match that task. So, if I'm met with a huge challenge, and given my current state, I'm overwhelmed, if I know how to regulate myself back down, then I'm more likely to enter the flow state, or vice versa, if the task is really simple and I need to really get myself concentrated to bring myself into a higher arousal state.

So, I think the flow states are a result of the practices. And because we have the ability both to teach the calming side and the challenging side, I think users are more likely to be able to find that sweet spot.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Oh, that's really interesting. So, actually, you're enabling people to actually enter a flow state across a wider spectrum of experiences, is what I'm hearing here because if people can basically auto regulate their brains to push something that would be overwhelming into a flow state.

I think Steven Kotler in The Rise of Superman was talking about if the activity you're engaged in is a little bit more than what you're comfortable with, it's enough to really get your attention. That was one of the triggers for flow states. And so, it's really interesting if you can modulate your mind to match the activity to go into the flow state. I really love that thought. So, tell me how you use that. What do you do for fun?

Max Newlon: When you're at the edge of your competence, you're being stretched just far enough to get pulled into that flow state where you're not self-conscious, you have the sense of you know what to do, you see the landscape, everything feels right. So, you need to be in this certain state to access that.

If I'm met with a task that is too challenging, and I'm starting to feel anxious, I'll practice my down regulation techniques that I've learned, all the calming stuff. I think that probably makes sense to a lot of people.

I think the opposite is true, where if I'm met with a task that is maybe underwhelming, it's not pulling me to the edge of my competence. I can focus more in on the details and try to really seek out exactly what I want to be doing and engage my mind more so that now the task is more cognitively stimulating because I'm really trying to get into the details. So, even if the task is underwhelming, you can still get yourself closer to that state.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: So, you started out in martial arts. Is that something where you've been using this now, and you're still involved with martial arts, or are there other athletic endeavors that you're involved with or anything like that going on?

Max Newlon: Nothing major. I'll work out a little bit for fitness' sake, though when you were saying that, this image came to mind where we're going to have a future where people put the headbands on, and they have a mental fight based on who has the stronger mind.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: That sounds like an NFT to me.

Max Newlon: Nothing major right now is going on.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: That sounds like an NFT.

Max Newlon: Someone had this idea; I forget who it was. You create an NFT based on your brain print. So, you have a unique brainwave pattern, and you would generate an NFT that's like some piece of art based on your brainwaves. There are a lot of fun things that you could probably do with your brainwaves.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Yeah, very cool stuff. So, what's next for you guys? Everybody building stuff is always building the next thing. So, what's the next thing for you guys?

Max Newlon: We really want to make this as accessible, easy to use, and effective as we can. And so, what that means is spending time understanding what people really want and the situations they are in and how different types of training at the right time of day can help them stay in the state that they want to be in.

So, the use case for Focus Calm is 10 to 15 minutes of use per day. Just like training your body, you train your mind for a certain period of time. You don't have to wear it all day. But what we have found is there are more people that have some sort of daily experience that they're tying Focus Calm to, like before bed, they're wanting to really wind down, or before some sort of high-pressure situation.

So, our work now is to create more and more content that speaks to the real-life experiences people have and give them useful data so that they can see themselves improve over time. So, there's more and more content, more ways for people to explore, and more ways for people to connect this to their daily life.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Yeah, very cool. How many users are out there now? How many people are using it?

Max Newlon: On the BrainCo platform, so Focus Calm is one of our brands here, this platform of technology, we have tens of thousands of people around the world using this, everyone from stock brokers to professors of law to truck drivers who have a stressful job or a stressful life.

Really, it's people who want a way to see what's going on inside their minds and learn skills to improve their well-being or their performance. And I think that's why we speak to so many people because that's such an innate part of being a person is wanting to get a better handle of what's going on.

And if I had a message for people, it would be you can change your brain. A lot of people think that they're stuck with what they have or they don't have the concept that there are inputs that will give you a different way of being.

And that's why we've created this toolbox for people to learn and explore so that they can get their hands on that idea that I can have an influence over my well-being over time. And even if it's just a small input or a small step forward here and there, it's going to compound, and they're going to end up with a better and happier life. That's the hope.

Steve Reiter: Max, what are some of those testimonials of people who have changed their brains? What's the kind of feedback you've heard?

Max Newlon: “This is the best purchase I've made all year.” “I use FocusCalm every single day, and it's part of my health and wellness routine.” There's one user, in particular, I'm thinking of where he was telling us after some sort of realization that stress was having a big impact on him, he wanted to do something about it, and now it's part of his routine. He has his coffee, he does his Focus Calm, and then he goes on with his day.

And the same thing with the athletes as well, who find it. We have some really high-level athletes, they are quite literally the best in the world at what they do, and they'll use it before every match to get themselves into that brain state. So, yeah.

Steve Reiter: Can you train your brain into a state for learning?

Max Newlon: Yeah, you can. We actually did a study with MIT, and it was a study that was looking at how real-time feedback using EEG can get you into the sweet spot of learning even if you don't really ...

It was a really cool study. Not everyone knew what was going on. They blinded the different participants in different ways. And what that means is the people who were in the study didn't necessarily know what was going on and the purpose of the study.

But the ones who got real-time feedback had insanely higher test scores, better comprehension, and better engagement; their brains look different. So, you actually can get ... Just like the sweet spot for flow, there is some sort of sweet spot for engagement during learning that this can work with too.

Steve Reiter: And then you've got that in the app?

Max Newlon: It's the same concept.

Steve Reiter: Okay.

Max Newlon: It's the same concept, except you're training yourself. So, instead of being covert feedback where you're in this research study, you don't really know what's going on. The thing that we do is you can see your score second by second, and you can learn how to get yourself into that state.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Okay. Very cool. So, really, it all condenses around that one score that you have everything that you want, whether it's learning, flow, meditation, anti-anxiety, or things like that. Does it have any impact on people with depression?

Max Newlon: Yeah, I think it comes back to self-regulation.

We've measured outcomes for anxiety and burnout, and well-being. We haven't done any studies centered directly around depression. I would be excited to do a study like that because I believe I'm not a psychiatrist or psychologist, but from my understanding, there are a lot of different subtypes of depression, and both up-regulating executive function tasks, those can help as well as learning how to deal with anxiety and stress can help too. And because we're doing both in the app, both the executive function stuff exercises and the relaxation stuff, the relaxation exercises, I think that's a powerful combination.

We did a study with a bunch of children who had attention issues, and they went through this combination training of both focus and relaxation, and we got some really interesting results, not only on their attention abilities but also on all these emotion-related comorbidities that you tend to see with people with attention-related issues, which was really encouraging too. So, I think that'd be an interesting study.

Dr. Jeffrey Gladden: Yeah, that's great. Really great. Well, congratulations on the work you're doing. I think it's spectacular. Like Steve, I think I'm going to dive in and get a band and start playing with it in different scenarios. So, we'll see what we come up with. But really great to have you on the show. Appreciate all your insights.

Max Newlon: My pleasure, my pleasure.

Steve Reiter: Thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Gladden Longevity Podcast. If you would like more information on what we've discussed or other topics, please reference the show notes or go to gladdenlongevitypodcast.com. You can also find us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter by searching Gladden Longevity.

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